International Baccalaureate Critic Says Parents Need More Information

None by Elizabeth Ziegler

(KCPW News) Education policy analyst Cherilyn Bacon Eagar is leading the charge to investigate the International Baccalaureate Program, an accelerated academic option available in some of Utah's public schools. Eager says teachers and parents should be more educated about the program's cost, governance, research and ideology.

"It's like when we take our children to a doctor, we want to choose the kind of philosophy, and the kind of medicine that that doctor teaches," Eagar says. "When we take our children to a piano teacher, we want to know what kind of pedagogy, what kind of philosophy, what approach do they take? It is no different here."

Eagar will present her findings about the program to lawmakers this summer during the interim session. Representative Carol Spackman Moss, a Salt Lake County Democrat who successfully passed legislation earmarking $100,000 in taxpayer money for the program, says Eagar's perspective is insulting. As a teacher, Moss question's Eagar's expertise in studying the issue. Eagar has a background in music education. Moss says Eagar has a biased perspective that taints her research.

"What concerns me, as you hear Cherilyn talk, she's suggesting the parents of IB students - not just this year or last year, but for the last 20-plus years at West High School - aren't smart enough to discern some underlying message she alludes to, this kind of indoctrination," Moss says.

The International Baccalaureate program first came under scrutiny earlier this year when Utah County Republican Senator Margaret Dayton suggested the program is anti-American. Click here to listen to a longer conversation with Eagar and Moss from Thursday's Midday Metro.

1. Observer said:

Bravo Cherilyn, for standing tall before the lawmakers with the truth about IB. Rep. Moss's overly defensive and silly comment about Cherilyn's position being "insulting" to IB parents, is insulting in itself. Let the lady speak, it doesn't cost you anything to listen.

2. Joshua said:

After hearing the arguments I hope that the IB program is fully supported by the State. I hope it is there when my daughters are in High School.

3. New Hampshire said:

It is clearly stated in the minutes of a NH school board meeting by an IB consultant that "IB is a philosophy whereas AP is a list of courses".

Do you really want to subject your kids to the philosophy of some communist bureaucrat at the UN? That is the question.

Also, they use 'constructivist' methods of learning that create huge gaps in knowledge.

IB is simply Goals 2000 on steroids and but instead of getting funds from the government, it is at GREAT EXTRA COST to the taxpayers. It certainly will not be promoting American Exceptionalism.

Some parents ARE too 'dumbed down' themselves to know better.

Joshua, you should be ashamed to subject your daughters to this kind of new age nonsense which belongs on Oprah but not in our schools!

People who are this blinded by the rhetoric will get the government they deserve, and that government is now being established by using our children as political pawns.

4. Betsey said:

New Hampshire is drowning in conspiracy theory, or has been drinking too much Kool-Aid.

Joshua, keep up the good parenting! Don't allow bullies to hurl insults and to shame you!

5. Vicky Davis said:

The International Baccalaureate Organization is a non-governmental organization (NGO) and they have a formal working relationship with the United Nations (UNESCO - which is the "social side" of the UN). What that means is that they exist to promote the UN Agenda which is collectivist.

The goal of the IB program is to promote 'global citizenship' which is antithetical to American citizenship. The IB program is more about indoctrination than it is about education.

The EdWatch organization in Minnesota has done a lot of research on this group. You can read it on their website.

6. Betsey said:

Out-of-staters all of you, and a bunch of hired guns to boot. Go back to your own patch and stir up trouble there.

We don't need to channel reality in Utah!

7. John Switzer said:

Vicky and New Hampshire:

Many of your comments surrounding the IB have already been addressed by the IB directly:

http://www.ibo.org/ibna/actionpacks/documents/UPDATED-MYTHVFACT.pdf

Happy reading!

8. Rational thought said:

New Hampshire and Vicky,

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

The IB Program is an EDUCATIONAL philosophy not a political one.

Universities view higher level IB courses and AP Courses as equally demanding.

The IB Program teaches advanced writing and analytical skills as part of their educational philosophy. AP courses do not teach advanced writing skills in any course except AP Language.

High schools in the United States need to raise the level of expectations for their students. The IB graduates have one of the best track records of university success.

9. Observer said:

Rational thought:

From IBO's own document on how to implement IB in an AP school:

http://www.ibo.org/ibna/actionpacks/documents/UPDATED-CSIBAPSCHOOL.pdf

• Think of your campaign like a political campaign: enlist volunteers, hold meetings, and allowpeople to voice questions and concerns.

And, just for the record, Binghamton and Jefferson no longer offer AP courses.

10. Observer said:

Rational thought:

Forgot to ask you about this:

"The IB graduates have one of the best track records of university success."

Could you please point me to some report, data base, or anything other than hearsay that supports this claim?

11. mere said:

As a high school graduate with an IB diploma I can tell you that I was not aware that the program had any connection to the UN. In no class was political topics discussed in anything other than an objective and analytical manner. In IB classes I learned how to think critically, write pursuasively and value learning for learning- rather than for grades.When I entered college at BYU most of my general education requirements were filled by my IB classes given my high scores. The GE classes that I did take (because there was no IB equivalent) I found simplistic, requiring only memorization and little thought.There is no justification for any of the allegations against the International Baccaleureate program.

12. Observer said:

World Premier - 10/10/08www.truthaboutib.com

13. Parent said:

IB is child abuse.

14. New Hampshire said:

Neither Vicky nor I are 'hired guns'. I am in fact a public school teacher of 35 years and do not work at all. I happen to have a conscience and I have seen what is going on with all the snake oil salesmen in education, first hand.

IBO clearly states they are a political movement hoping that they can use education for transformational social change. The United Nations and their foundations and world bankers are behind this.

If you like communism or managed societies so much, why not just move to Venezuela or Cuba?

You might be happier there.

15. Concerned said:

I have stumbled upon this discussion by accident and I have one question. Is this serious?This is a case of jingoistic Americans ruthlessly attacking a superior learning program. Some of the posts were hysterical. I hardly find that being globally and socially aware make someone a communist, as many of you feel. As an aside, attacking your opponents as “communists” or “bullies” does nothing for your argument. The “philosophy” of IB, so maligned in this discussion, really refers to trying to make the students aware of a wider world than the United States. Before you reject this excellent program, I suggest you re-evaluate your own extreme views. IB emphasizes a moderate and objective “philosophy.” Americans should not turn their backs on learning because of an irrational fear that their nation is threatened by it.

16. Pre-IB Student said:

Are you kidding me? IB is an exceptional program- for those that can handle it, and clearly promotes a higher level of thinking. Just look at the quality of writing that the IB students/graduates are putting out HERE, on a INTERNET FORUM, compared to some of the other comments. Even by reading these, it is clear that the IB graduates have a superior grasp on the English language than many of you.

17. CacheParent said:

Well, I haven't decided yet about IB, but I think it is really funny to see someone claim that IB students have a superior grasp "on" the English language. Here is another one: "In no class was political topics discussed..." And another: "The GE classes that I did take (because there was no IB equivalent).." Maintaining plural or singular construction should not be hard for any high school grad.

18. Bill said:

Folks...Am father of Jr. IB IB KID...Am also Republican, "Comfortable Finacially (Can send son anywhere I want), Conservative, and 2 Degrees. Wife is similar.

OK...Was going to send kid to Nationally ranked Private Jesuit HS, coming from expensive private middle. Kid passes test, gets acceptance...Lose $4k to NOT SEND.

Why...IB had been kept a secret from private in my area. Wonder Why...Duh..the money....By accident a golfer at Club told me about this program called IB...His kid did it and was then at Harvard Law....

After investigation, found out the IB Program available was stack ranked in Top 10 HS in nation....Hmmm....$20K for Jesuit....0 for IB...so looked deeply into its bowels....

First off, there were 950 kids trying to get 125 spots my kids year...Competitive as Hell...downright ruthless...with political games all over the place to get a spot...In fact, had to have attorney make a call downtown to even get fair treatment...Why because the Liberals already had the inside track...as conservative....tough to get it done...

OK...Accomplished.....Folks, there is NOTHING ON THE EARTH comparable to IB Academics. Now understand this as well....I am talking about the Top 10% of any IB program (About 15 to 25 kids) are in a friggin League of their own academically. And these same kids are competing with OTHER incredibly gifted academic kids....Nobody Dominates my friends....OK...so my kid is currently stack ranked 16th out of 13,000 kids in District, but is currently 5th (here me 5th) in his IB class of 140.

IB Calc/Chem/Bio/History/English/History makes AP same look like childs play.... play...Talking about High Level Now about the UN conspiracy BS....Look moron....ALL School, Public and Private are overwhelmingly dominated by Liberal, World Order, Gay Agenda, Politically Correct Weasels......Not just IB.....Hell, the $20K/annum school has those same REAL DRAWBACKS....

That is why we just completed spending our kids futures with Obama the Wonderful.....

If you are directly involved with your smart kid....You will have fun "Busting the Bubble" of the Libs while your kid is in IB.....That is what I do...and that is what I have done....My kid loves it....cause he is one of about 6 in class (only 2 of 5 Top) that have a consevative culture....

But I will tell you this....In chem, calc, Bio, Hist, English....These kids are so far over the head of current College Level kids that it is truly a damn joke....Kid will be able to exempt them .....But won't...cause the system is so screwed up....That to go to Med School Jr Honors....It is better that he take the now crip courses for the Easy A.....

Anyway the problem is with the liberal, Gay, Socialist, and bizarre Liberal left in 90% of education that should be the focus of your ire....IB is the unmatched smartest place in the world to put smart kids...But you as a parent have to be careful....just as you do with anything else currently connected with education in our country....Here is why...Of the 5 Top in kids class....3 are complete nerds...who regardless of education will accomplish NOTHING of value...(they will be in a dark room being fed poop, like mushrooms) and working for socialist wages....

The other two.....Oh my God....They will probably be MD's within 5 years of leaving HS.....at least that is both of their plans...and I am not about to doubt it....

You cannot BUY this level of education.....Got it Morons...