Lawmakers to Discuss State Concealed Firearm Permit Policy

Jun 17, 2008 by Eric Ray

McCoy to Run Bill Banning Non-Utah Residents From Applying

(KCPW News) Representatives from the Utah Department of Public Safety can expect to hear some very pointed questions from lawmakers about concealed firearm permits during tomorrow's Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Interim Committee meeting.

"Can you quantify the benefits to Utah citizens and taxpayers of continuing to issue concealed weapons permits to people from outside of Utah? That's really what it comes down to. When we make a decision about whether or not to maintain a particular program or practice in the state of Utah, what we do is weigh the costs vs. the benefits," says Democratic Senator Scott McCoy of Salt Lake County.

McCoy says the practice of issuing concealed firearm permits to non-Utah residents raises several concerns. One is an issue of public safety. McCoy says once a permit is issued to a non-resident, the state lacks the resources to make sure those people remain legally eligible to hold the permit. The other concern is fiscal. McCoy says the cost of performing the necessary background checks is using resources better spent elsewhere.

"Because we have so many concealed weapons permits applications from outside the state, our personnel at BCI are spending all their time checking the backgrounds of people from different countries and different states when they should be spending time checking the backgrounds of teacher applicants and daycare applicants and any number of other things for positions in the state of Utah," says McCoy.

Tomorrow's interim committee meeting starts at 9 a.m. in room C415 at the State Capitol. McCoy says he plans to run a bill next session that makes only Utah residents eligible to apply for a Utah concealed firearm permit.

1. Anonymous said:

A classic bureaucrat! If there is a value to the Utah concealed firearm permit, then we should continue to offer it to individuals outside of the state, but we should also make sure those individuals are paying the full cost of issuing and monitoring the permit.

2. Brian said:

Absolutely. I'm willing to pay the cost of my permit and even the cost of a more regular background check in order to maintain my permit.

3. Patriot said:

Any law-abiding citizen of the United States should be allowed to carry a firearm in any state for self-defense purposes. Requiring a permit or a license in order to do so is an infringement of our rights as protected by the 2nd Amendment. We have the right to keep and bear arms, period.

4. Thomas Jefferson said:

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

5. St. George Tucker said:

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty .... The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction" -- St. George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court and U.S. District Court of Virginia in Blackstone Commentaries, 1803

6. Oldshooter said:

Maybe Mr. McCoy would be better advised to work towards the passage of mandatory intrastate recognition of all state's concealed carry permits, as this is the primary reason so many people from out of state want Utah permits. The Utah permit is so widely recognized in other states, that having one makes it legal to carry in something like 25 or 30 states. How about if non-residents have to pay a higher fee, sufficient to cover costs of the background checks and BCI time?

7. Big Rick said:

I have a Nevada CCW of which Utah does not yet recognize. I have taken the Utah class and will be submitting my paperwork shortly. I travel and vacation in Utah quite frequently. If the state decides not to issue a CCW permit to me and does not recognize my Nevada permit, I will need to spend my money elsewhere. Hopefully the SCOTUS will make permits a thing of the past next week. ( a person can dream)BTW: I have no problem paying my way. If the process costs more than the fee, please increase the fees.

8. Rick said:

I'm really sorry to hear this. My wife and I will be taking a Utah Concealed Carry class this Sunday in hopes of getting a UT cc license. We are Maryland residents and our state gives licenses only to people who can prove a need for such a license. Of course politicians are included in those who "need" a license. In any case, since our home state essentially offers no license, that means that we can't take advantage of any reciprocity with other states when we travel.

9. Bruce Bluemel said:

I was a resident of the State of Utah (born & raised from 1940) and left for greener pastures in 1999. I got tired of the political sway as well as the state tax and moved to Florida then to Arizona. I hold CCW permits in all three state because no reciprical recognition. I agree with "Old Shooter". I would really hope that this typical politician and of course another anti gun Democrat, would use his influence to make any state permit to be recognized. The problems that he states would simply go away. I'm sure I feel the same way that a lot of the populace feels about new laws. "DON'T FIX SOMETHING THAT AIN'T BROKE"

10. Glockpacker said:

If Utah does this to you, you'll find that the Florida License will give you about the same rights. You will be legal in 29 or 30 states. Check it out here. (there are 5 states that won't honor the license unless you're a Florida resident.) http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

11. Fred Miller said:

Why on earth would someone want to end a program that generates so much revenue for the State of Utah? If they honestly feel that there's some kind of cost issue, they should increase the fee. To put an end to ANYTHING that increases a state's income should be thrown out of office, or terminated from their job.

12. Doug Graham said:

Couldn't democratic senator Scott McCoy just take a practical rather than an anti-gun stance and raise the durn fees to cover the costs to Utah?

13. Walt Nicholes said:

This smacks of being a pretext for something greater: An attempt to eliminate shall issue in Utah. The follow on question is, of course, if there is no benefit to issuing out-of-state persons CC permits, then what would be the benefit to issuing them to residents?

This will be remembered in the next election.

14. hamm said:

Big Rick,

Utah does recognize Nevada permits. In fact it recognizes any permit from any state. Nevada recently decided to recognize Utah permits as well.

15. Fred Miller said:

I checked the Utah CCW issue statistics. The State issued more than 112,000 permits just in the first quarter of 2008! At $65 per permit, how much revenue is that for the State? Who would want to end a multi-million dollar "cash cow"?

16. Howard Lowe said:

Holy cow! I can't remember the last time I agreed with so many postings on a single board.

Walt hit the nail on the head with shall issue.

Maybe the Utah legislature will take this as a great way to solidify this practice and make it a profitable venture for the State at the same time.

We are on the verge of taking the class also, so we don't want it to go away.

Come to think about it I don't know and don't care how much it costs now, so how would we know any different if the did raise the dang fees.For us this is about alot more than fair processing fees. We feel that this program is a critical acid test for nationally recognized carry, in the event that the Supreme Court does less than it should.

17. Howard Lowe said:

I think $65 dollars is not quite enough for processing and background check to break even. Who else would gladly pay double.

18. Jeremy S. said:

Wow!! Where does one start? Here are a few questions for thought.

1) I just received my Utah CCL and should Utah stop issuing to nonresidents will they Grand father the current nonresident permit tee’s? If not I hope they plan on refunding some portion of the $7.2M (based on Fred M. numbers above) revenue stream, and I would presume it will be a majority of the money based on McCoy statement, "Because we have so many concealed weapons permits applications from outside the state, ...".

2) Since the cost for the nonresident permit is the same as the cost for the resident permit. Will Mr. McCoy then use the same argument for the residents (as Walt referenced to above)?

3) If Utah stops issuing to nonresidents will they stop giving reciprocity for other states CCL’s? If so then the Utah issued CCL's will not be recognized in other states (if I understand the reciprocity process correctly).

Finally being that I am a Colorado resident I do spend time in Utah, but I will put a end to that and take my money to another state that respects an American's fundamental right.

Let me end with this politically incorrect statement; God Bless America!

19. Fast Draw McGraw said:

I am a South Carolina Resident with a CWP, I also hold a Utah CWP. Mr McCoy can bite me. When is this Country going to stand up to the Liberals?

20. Anthony Drago said:

the answer is simple stop issuing non resident permits and accept the permit from the persons home stste, if my drivers license is valid in the UNITED states then my firearms permit issued in my home state where i went throufg a backgroun check should be accepted the same way.

21. mr.t said:

Guns scare me....

22. BARTMAN said:

The legislators in Utah, especially the liberal dems, are slowly erroding our 2nd amendment rights given to us by GOD, not humans. Issuing non-residents a CCW is what all states should do, especially in Cal. and Mass., and make tham all legal.

23. Isaac Showalter said:

As far as liberals (socialists) go, he is indeed the Real McCoy. His cost/benefit analysis angle sounds like a desparate grasping of straws to undermine the 2nd amendment in any way they can think up. $65.00 is more than a reasonable fee to cover the cost for some hack to enter applicant data into NICS. The reason liberals (socialists) wish to gut the 2nd amendment is due to their vision for America. They would like you to believe that it arises from their "concern" for public safety when in fact their concern is from something far more sinister. Like socialism anywhere in the world, their socialist vision for America is intolerent of any form of dissent or individualism and requires the instillation of fear in its citizens to convert them from constituents to subjects. This is clearly observable in Liberal ruled enclaves such as Washington DC, Chicago, Philidelphia, Massachusetts, etc. where crime is allowed to proliferate by using the catch and release model of criminal justice. Keeping gangbangers, drug dealers, and other violent thugs on the streets while they pass laws that disarms its citizens. Fear is good for business since it not only checks dissent, it breeds dependency on the govenment and fuels its perpetual expansion and encroachment, at the cost of our rights. An armed populace is a major obstacle to this agenda. Was this the vision of our founding fathers? Yes it was. They were wise men who knew from experience that tyrany in any form or degree could rear its ugly head at any time. Thats why we have the Bill of Rights. America needs to shed its case of Stockholm Syndrome and retake the country and our rights by voting out of political existence, every liberal (socialist), Democrat or Republican, at every level of government from town to state to federal, or in the near future we might as well practice greeting each other as commrad.

24. Joe said:

Take away the CCW from law abiding citizens and then the criminals will have a field day on us law abiding citizens without worry.....If mc coy and his family was sitting next to me in a restaurant with my legal permit and some BG with a criminal record came in and started shooting up the place i wonder if he would want me to use it to protect his family???

25. Maverick Mike said:

Isaac Showalter, Hit The Nail On The Head. The Only Diference Between Socialism And Communism Is How You Spell The Word !!!

26. Gerry said:

Well, it's now a week later. Does anyone know the outcome of that meeting?