Monday, June 30, 2008
Jun 27, 2008 by KCPW
KCPW's Public Square Airs Lives Weekdays at 11 a.m., Repeats Weeknights at 7 p.m.
An on-the-ground report from Utah Red Cross Volunteer Bill Gully, who's been in Wisconsin for more than two weeks. The Public Square also talks about the financial toll floods, tornadoes and other natural disasters are taking on the relief fund of the American Red Cross with local chapter CEO Maxine Margaritis.
Religion and political literacy with Professor Jeffrey Nielsen, whose op-ed two years ago against the LDS Church's stance on gay marriage led to his demise at church-owned Brigham Young University. Now he's written an open letter to California Mormons in the wake of the church's request for members to support a constitutional ban on gay marriage in that state.
Use the media player below to hear a podcast of today's show:
Open Letter to California Mormons
Jeffrey S. Nielsen
I am a member of the Mormon Church, a married heterosexual, and a supporter of marriage equality for gay and lesbian couples. I am asking you to pause and give sincere thought to the letter from our religious leaders you have heard read, or will soon hear read, over our church pulpits asking you to get involved and oppose marriage equality in California. Please think deeply about this, not only as a member of a particular church, but also as a citizen of a democracy.
To press for an amendment to a civil constitution that would legalize discrimination against an entire class of people is no small matter, but of the greatest significance. When the argument, no matter how well intentioned, is based solely upon a religious proclamation; then, I believe, it is a serious contradiction of the wisdom of our founding fathers. It also does tremendous damage to the great progress in civil rights we’ve made in our country respecting the equal dignity of each person and towards a more certain legal equality for all citizens.
You should also know, not all faithful Mormons agree with our religious leaders’ encroachment into political matters. In fact, a growing number of active Mormons, who have gay friends and family members, are coming to the conclusion that our current leaders are as mistaken in promoting discrimination against gays and lesbians as was the Mormon hierarchy in the 60’s when they opposed equal rights for people of color, and our Mormon leaders in the 70’s when they opposed full legal equality for women.
Of course, religious authorities of any denomination possess the right, and may claim the legitimacy, to set the theology and policy for their religious community. When they; however, attempt to interject religious doctrine into the public spaces of a diverse democracy without reasonable justification, then members, especially faithful members, of that religious organization have the civic responsibility to express public disapproval of such dangerous and undemocratic behavior.
No one is asking that you condone a behavior that might violate your religious faith, but we need to allow everyone the freedom to live their life as they see fit, so long as it does not physically harm another person. After all, religious values must be something an individual freely chooses, not something forced upon him or her by the state. We should never allow our constitutions, whether state or federal, to become weapons in a crusade to impose a particular religious value system upon a pluralistic democracy. Today it might be a particular religious value that we affirm, but tomorrow it might be a religious system, which would seek to legislate against our own sincere beliefs. So now is the time to take a stand and keep separate civil and religious authority.
I do not believe that people choose their sexual orientation any more than they choose their skin color or gender. So to discriminate and deny them equal protection and equal opportunity under civil law because of these natural traits; especially in this case, sexual orientation, is grossly unfair and should be rejected outright in a compassionate and just democracy. If anyone could give me a single reasonable argument against marriage equality in our civil society, which doesn’t make fallacious appeals to tradition, misplaced appeals to religious authority, or make some ridiculous claim about nonhuman animals, then I would like to hear it. So far, no one has been able to present me with even a single justifiable reason.
You should know that like you, family and marriage are very important to me. As I have become acquainted with gay and lesbian couples, I have been touched by their goodness, sincerity, and commitment. I am persuaded that allowing marriage equality would, in fact, strengthen the institutions of family and marriage in our country. Perhaps it might even make all of us a little more considerate and responsible as both marriage partners and parents. I can only hope that the citizens of California, and my fellow Mormons, will possess the wisdom and moral decency to reject the call to discriminate against our gay and lesbian coworkers, friends, neighbors, church members, and family.
Email to a friendPosted in Politics Up Close. Copyright 2008 KCPW
1. Anonymous said:
As a non-Mormon, gay California citizen, I thank you for speaking out on the immoral attempt to write discrimination into our state constitution. I am very grateful for your courage, support and assistance in this battle for our civil rights.
3. John said:
This letter is so very true. I currently attend BYU and experience firsthand the encompassing control of the institution and religion. Professor Nielsen is one of the few who make their voice heard. The LDS church should quit wasting resources and energies on discrimination and instead focus on love. Love is the answer.
4. Carol said:
Unfortunately, money, and its accompanying power, is the bottom line for LDS Inc. 'Now all you tithe payers get your checks in. We have a mall to finish in Salt Lake.'
5. Elder George Carlin said:
You are truly going against the grain of what the LDS Hierarchy wants. Be prepared to have a "court of love". Unfortunately, the Mormon church would prefer to have non-questioning sheep conformists than people who think for themselves. It makes it easier to keep people in line that way.
Sure, there are many good people who happen to be LDS, but this isn't the issue. This is a civil rights issue to give gay people the same right to marry that straight people have. It simply isn't ethical to deny someone else this right of legal protection.
If there is a such a God who oversees mankind, then I would think that God would want it's creation to question, learn, and decide for themselves because it's part of the learning process. This God gave you a brain, use it.
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
6. Michael Liebmann said:
Elder George Carlin has it correct. The mormon church has it wrong in this case.
7. Tanya said:
This took courage to write and I'm pleased to see it. As a straight, married mother of two I don't understand the church trying to influence their members in a political case of discrimination. I'm glad there are brave members of the church who aren't afraid to speak up. Too bad they are in the minority.
8. Britt said:
Thank you Jeffrey! As a straight Mormon, I can't tell you how happy I am you spoke up so eloquently. I've been a supporter of gay rights for years and was so angered to see the Church's political involvement. For all you non-Mormons out there, please know that there's a large and growing minority of liberal minded Mormons who love and support gays and lesbians.
9. Robert Bayn said:
Well said, people need to hear this. Just not Mormons, but people of all faiths. Discrimination is wrong!
10. Paul said:
While I agree that the individual should have the right to live how he/she chooses, that fact alone is not a basis upon which judges should usurp the will of the majority as expressed through the ballot box - no matter how ignorant or unfounded these judges feel that a law may be. It is not their place. This is a democracy, not government ruled by judges.
If the majority passes a constitutional amendment, then so be it. The MINORITY will have to work harder to change perceptions. That is why they are a minority and that is the beauty of America - the majority rules - be what it may.
I cannot see what inherit constitutional rights are being denied to someone with a marriage amendment. Last time I checked, the right to be married is not expressed in the Constitution, but rather an issue left to the states - let them decide and the majority that dwells within their borders. That's how it should be.
While I agree that people do not necessarily choose their sexual orientation, such a fact alone does not qualify as a license to irresponsible behavior, nor does it exonerate homosexuality as a responsible behavior with benign consequences. There are clearly very negative social consequences to homosexuality on a LARGE scale - just as there are very negative social consequences with heterosexuality practiced irresponsibly. That fact cannot be denied.
11. Shannon said:
Paul,While it is clear that you know a lot of big words, your comment seemed to be arguing things that were never even brought into question. Professor Nielsen's letter is urging the MAJORITY to VOTE with open minds and hearts. Majority vote = democracy, no question. Also, there was never a question of this being a STATE issue, California being the state at hand. And lastly, what does not choosing sexual orientation have to do with "a license to irresponsible behavior"? People are irresponsible regardless of their sexual orientation, race, gender, etc. just as people are responsible regardless of those things. Responsibility doesn't have much to do with anything other than a person simply choosing to be responsible.
I think Professor Nielsen's letter is incredibly intelligent, just, and needed. May it open a few minds.
12. Tyson said:
A pillar of light in a cloudy and dim time. Thank you for standing up, Professor. I am a LDS, heterosexual, student studying Theater at Weber State University in Utah, and have had homosexual friends commit suicide because of their torn feelings on who they are and how the Church and its members and presidency feels about 'their kind'. While I consider myself not very well versed in the ways of politics, I would just like to comment on the times before us.When there was a Good Shepherd among men who loved you no matter what creed, religion, or person you were. What would Christ do? Think about it.
"Love one another as I have loved you."
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mahatma Gandhi.
13. Woods said:
The LDS church is not telling homosexuals that they do not have the choice to be homosexuals, because they do, but the LDS church is taking a stance on marriage; that marriage is to be between a man and a woman...and that's it. Christ loves everyone, and the LDS church teaches to love everyone. We believe that marriage is between a man and a woman only and anything outside of that is not ordained of God. That is why we are supporting prop 8.
14. anonymous said:
It's not a CHOICE. And please don't speak for the entire LDS church when you say, "That is why WE are supporting it." Maybe that is why YOU are supporting it, but I'm not and I am also LDS.
15. Will said:
In reference to what our friend "Woods" had to say on the matter (even though i did love the very empassioned response from "annonymous"):
I understand what it is that your church believes about this lifestyle "choice", irregardless, the simple fact that you admittedly claim that "we (The church) are supporting Prop. 8" because it supports a "choice" that is "not ordained of god", discounts your opinion in this particular discussion at all because you are admittedly voting to force a constitutional ammendment on marriage in to the American public because of a RELIGIOUS persuasion. which, as i'm very sure you already know, completely contradicts your belief, not as a member of the LDS church, but as a participating member in one of the greatest democratic societies on earth; Which is to say, to keep all matters of church and state SEPERATE. ... you see i quoted alot of what you said, Woods, to show you just how incredibly stupid and flawed that argument sounds when read back to you by someone who understands the rights afforded to you by the American Constitution. Thanks for playing, try to keep an open mind next time!
To my friends in "the minority":I see a lot of you, the majority in fact, commending Prof. Nielsen's letter, yet meeting it with some defeated skepticism about how the overwhelming conviction of religious organizations like the LDS church will never allow our country to overcome this truly silly issue. I would urge you all, however, to try and hear Prof. Nielsen's letter, not as a desperate outcry from a hopeless minority, but rather as the voice of a new society, and the hope that we can push through to the next social evolution and be the generation that writes the newest chapter in history pertaining to major breakthroughs in civil rights. This can happen, and it will happen. In time it will be a wonder it was ever an issue to begin with.
That's all. (Shout out to Shannon and Tyson.)
16. Will said:
furthermore, i apologize for using the word "irregardless" i caught it right after i posted and.... well now i'm just ashamed.
2. Jeremy said:
As a homosexual who grew up in the LDS church, i applaud Professor Nielsen for speaking out on this moral issue. If members are free thinking they will realize the clear truth of his statement. THANK YOU for actually standing for truth!