Utah Elections Officials Downplay Security Threat
None by KCPW
Hacker's Report Claims Vote Outcomes At-Risk
(KCPW News) Utah elections officials are downplaying the findings of a computer hacker who warns of serious security holes in the state's touch-screen voting machines."With whatever system you have, if you let the coyote into the henhouse, he's going to have dinner," says Joe Demma, chief of staff in the Office of Lieutenant Governor, which oversees elections in Utah. "It's the job of our county clerks, and they all do a good job, of not letting that happen."
Demma calls the report released today by elections watchdog group Black Box Voting "juvenile fearmongering." It claims that someone with minimal technical skill and access to voting machines made by Diebold Systems could hack into the computer system and influence election outcomes. Officials in Pennsylvania and California have issued urgent security warnings to county officials in their states. But Demma says county clerks in Utah can safely and securely administer the upcoming primary election by following security procedures already in place. Diebold Government Relations Director Mark Radke agrees.
"The risk factor associated with electronic voting is far less than paper ballots. Paper ballots can be more easily altered than electronic votes which are encrypted and digitally signed for additional protection," says Radke.
But Black Box Voting director Bev Harris says Utah officials should, at a minimum, reload all of their Diebold voting machines with a clean version of the software and permanently seal the computer casing before using them in the coming primary.
"All of the computer scientists in the U.S. are saying this is the worst security hole ever," says Harris. "These machines are used in about 30 states. They count tens of millions of votes. They do control the outcome of federal elections."
The Black Box Voting report was instigated by Emery County Clerk Bruce Funk who found discrepancies in some of the e-voting machines he was issued by the state. Funk has been reprimanded for his actions and removed from his position on the grounds of a resignation he disputes.
The report's findings have garnered national media attention - including a story in today's New York Times.
To obtain the report, visit www.blackboxvoting.org.
Email to a friendPosted in KCPW Newsroom. Copyright 2009 KCPW
1. Kathy Dopp said:
It is worth pointing out that, unlike Utah, the three states that issued security warnings, all employ PhD computer scientists who are expert in voting systems to help them evaluate voting systems.
Joe Demma is only spewing the Diebold company line, per usual. Utah Election officials are not doing their fiduciary duty to protect our republic.
The New York Times quoted computer scientists saying that "this is the worst security flaw ever discovered in a voting system" and this is "like leaving the barn door wide open" for election tampering.
Read the report. (http://www.blackboxvoting.org/BBVtsxstudy.pdf) This is not an innocent glitch or bug in the Diebold voting machines. It is a deliberately designed security hole.
Thank you for covering this new Diebold security study which has been reported in mainstream press in PA, CA, and NY among others, but not yet in any Utah newspapers to my knowledge.
3. Ronald Thompson said:
Interesting reading.
Seems to me like Mr. Demma made a good point about letting the 'coyote in the henhouse.'
What else would you (Kathy Dopp) rather have than the trust that the Lieutenant Governor has in the County Clerks? Are you asserting that they are somehow acting illegaly?
Are you asserting that election officials from the state are in "cahoots" with some political organization to "rig" an election?
Do we really disrespect our election officials in such a manner?
Or maybe....you might happen to be on a crusade that really has a home in Florida, rather than Utah?
Seems to me, Kathy Dopp, that you are a one-trick pony....with a "ton of complaints," lacking any REAL substance.
I agree with Mr. Demma, this seems to be a childish attempt to scare voters.
Those involved in these scare-tactics should be ashamed of themselves.
4. Larry Bergan said:
According to a recent Zogby poll, the vast majority of the American people who don't watch the Fox News channel believe the 2004 election was stolen. An even larger majority believe the 2000 election was stolen.
The election officials in Utah who chose the inferior and unverifiable Diebold equipment, (not the county clerks), have done nothing to insure people will know their votes are being accurately counted.
Even if the machines are 100% accurate, we have no way of knowing our votes are being counted. Solve that problem and the anti-voting machine activists will disappear. HAVA does NOT require these machines and is a bad bill that has connections with the widely known Abranoff Scandal in washington. There is nothing "childish" about free and fair elections and you people are playing with fire! Listen to your mother!
5. Ronald Thompson said:
Larry Bergan,
I'm not saying that there is anything "childish about free and fair elections."
I was simply agreeing with Mr. Demma that scare tactics seem to be at work, here.
When you voted with a paper or punch-card, were you any more certain that your vote was counted than you would with a touchscreen? I am interested in that answer, because it seems to me that if there really was "foul play" involved, county elections folks could simply count the paper votes that seem to be printed on the new machines.
I don't understand your position, is what I'm really trying to say.
Also, I am interested in your accusation that HAVA has anything to do with the "Abramoff Scandal." From your post, it seems you can not even spell the man's name correctly (Abramoff, not Abranoff). If you don't even know about whom you are indicting, how can I be sure you know what you are even talking about, in general?
I agree that HAVA was flawed legislation, but it seems to me that it is binding, nonetheless.
Anyway, I'm interested in your response.
6. Arlene Montemarano said:
Here is the dilemma: Election officials seem ready to defend to the death decisions made to purchase eletronic voting machines after HAVA. Why?
I think it is because they are intimidated by the whole mystique of electronic voting and find it necessary to rely on the companies that make them much too much. And that is why they are so dangerous. They see the manufacturers as the "experts", and not the many critical computer specialists that have pointed out all the rigging that is possible.
If Diebold says it is OK, then it is. Everyone else is simply trying to embarrass them.
If we don't adopt a more adult attitude about this, voting will truly be a meaningless charade in this country, if it is not one already.
7. Larry Bergan said:
Mr. Thompson:
Thank you for the correction on my spelling, I hate it when I do that.
I have no possible thing to gain by scaring people just for the purpose of scaring people. As I told you in the previous post, the majority of Americans believe the last two presidential elections were stolen. This is dangerous to a democracy. I never worried about the elections being honest until 2000. What I have witnessed first hand in the voting machine selection process since then has me worried for my beloved country.
If you've been following this issue as I have, you know those names that will be printed on the Diebold machines will never be counted. They won't even be counting the barcodes this time. The citizens of Utah are not aware that there is a law prohibiting anything but a machine to count their votes. Since the punch card system was introduced, every vote has been counted by software on a machine that we've never even seen. I'm not comfortable with that, because I'm a Democrat, and my state has become a laughing stock. They tell us we voted overwhelmingly for the most incompetent, budget squandering, belligerent administration in Americas history!
I'm curious as to why you concentrated on my spelling error, as opposed to the fact that Abramoff was involved in payoffs which prevented HAVA from implementing the most basic protections that would have given us confidence in the voting system after 2000. Fives years later, we are farther then ever from knowing our votes are safe!
8. Larry Bergan said:
I have to make a correction to my statement that the majority of the American people think the 2004 election was stolen. I didn't realize the extent of the popularity of Fox news. The poll was taken in Pennsylvania and overall, only 39 percent think it was stolen.
Here's the chart I was going by.
Network Stolen Legitimate
ABC 56% 32%
CBS 64% 31%
CNN 70% 24%
FOX .5% 99%
MSNBC 65% 24%
NBC 49% 43%
Other 56% 28%
9. Ronald Thompson said:
Larry Bergan:
If you read my post, you would notice that I was not, as you say, "focusing on a spelling error." That fact was at the end of my post, a post that included many other questions...to say that it "focused" on your spelling error is disingenuous and yet another tactic by you to distract from the issue at hand.
Basically, I know what kind of conspiracy theorist you are based on your comments.
If you hate the touch screen technology so much, why not just vote an absentee ballot?
Why not encourage THAT type of voting, if you are so interested in defending Americans from a Republican takeover? I find it quite hilarious that the Republicans would need to "cahoot" with ANYONE to deliver votes in Utah.
It's called a "Get Out The Vote" campaign, Larry Bergan.
Ever heard of it?
Or would you rather just mill around, be nasty and try to instill fear with your vitriolic comments?
- Ronald Thompson
10. Larry Bergan said:
Mr. Thompson:
In your last small post you accused me of milling around, being a nasty, disingenuous conspiracy theorist, instilling fear using vitriolic comments and tactics to distract people from the issues at hand.
Aside from all of these visual aids, you still refuse to acknowledge that Jack Abramoff was involved in payoffs which prevented Diebold voting machines from having verifiable paper ballots. You even admit that it resulted in flawed legislation. Utah officials decided to give taxpayers money to Diebold for the machines regardless.
Virtually all of the well educated people who cared enough about our democracy to show up at the numerous committee meetings on the issue warned against the purchase of the flawed equipment over a two year period. I personally spent over a thousand dollars and countless hours working to get out the vote and personally collected more signatures against machines without paper ballots then the Lt. Governors office got at the last showing of the machines which was merely a vote as to which one to buy. Joseph Demma told me in an E_MAIL that the people of Utah overwhelmingly support these secretly programmed voting machines manufactured in another state. No they do not! The media has never given them the facts!
Diebold had already lost two lawsuits over the matter when the Lt. Governors office rushed to buy them.
In a series of E-MAILS between the Lt. Governors chief of staff and myself, I repeatedly asked if he had read the United States Government Accounting Office report which strongly warned of serious problems with the machines. Since you seem to be connected with the effort to defend the machines, an unenviable task, it may illuminate you on the stance you may wish to take in the future. I would be interested in knowing whether Mr. Demma ever read the report. I mailed parts of it to him and told him how to obtain it on the internet.
I answered all of your questions in my post. On the subject of my vitriol, The Pew Research Center found that of the top four words most often used to describe Bush, three of them were incompetent, liar, and idiot, so I guess the case could be made that I was being measured when I called him incompetent, budget squandering, and belligerent. To be fair, one of the words used most often was, good. We are indeed a divided nation under his rule.
I am very glad you brought up absentee voting. In Utah absentee voting is done on punch cards which I told you I do not trust because of the fact they are mandated, by law, to be counted on a software driven machine that I have never even seen a picture of. The solution may be to hand mark and hand count the ballots this time. We're Americans, we can do it!
By the way, I'm not from Florida, I have lived in Utah all my life. My Great, Great, Great Grandfathers name is on a plaque in the State Capitol Building as being one of the first 130 Mormon settlers here. I am not religious myself, but I am one of the most honest people you will ever meet.
Thanks for your reply, but with all due respect, I did not think you would!
11. Ronald Thompson said:
Larry Bergan:
Absentee balloting in Utah will no longer be done via punch-card...as I understand it, it will be done via optical scanner.
Any way that you vote, other than by hands raised in an assembly hall seems to be "corrupt" by your own definition.
I don't know the Lt. Gov.'s staff - never have and probably never will...I just know that the people elected the Lt. Gov, and if the people are dissatisfied, they will let him know.
You do seem to be a "conspiracy theorist" - which is fine...you have every right to say what you want to in America. I just believe that people who salaciously attack things that they do not endorse end up having those comments endure the lack of respect they deserve.
I am not a "defender of the machines" as you say - I am simply a non-paid, tax-paying defender of REALITY.
And by the way, I could care less who your great-great-great-grandiose grandfather is. That relationship has no bearing, whatsoever, on your aggressive ignorance on this issue.
- Ronald.
12. Larry Bergan said:
Secretly programmed voting machines manufactured in another state KNOWN for it's election corruption (Ohio) will count votes cast in Utah, and no attempt will be made to verify the accuracy.
REALITY.
13. Ronald Thompson said:
Apparently, Larry Bergan has no answer to my questions....
What a surprise...a "flamethrower of rhetoric" gets doused by reality and "poof" - - he is gone.
I would like Larry Bergan to respond to my inquiry with something other than "paranoia."
I don't think Larry Bergan will respond, because his paranoid behavior has no bounds.
I apologize if I have offended you, Larry Bergan, but you seem to have no repentance for the attacks you so freely wield upon Utah's election officials.
You should be ashamed of yourself, Larry - how dare you accuse so many of so much?! How dare you be the "implicator" of such horrible accusations, yet refuse to respond when "called on." ????
You must be a fraud....no wonder the public media has stopped paying attention to the likes of you, Kathy Dopp and the rest.
Why waste the ink?
- Ronald
14. Larry Bergan said:
Mr. Thompson:
Methinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much!
What question have you asked that I have not answered?
There are many I have asked you have not answered. What about Jack Abramoff,not to mention Bob Ney? Why do so many Americans think our elections are being stolen. Why did all those supposed Florida residents who showed up to disrupt the counting in 2000 turn out to be from Washington and now many of them have good jobs in the administration according to the Washinton Post.
Trust, but verify!
-Ronald Reagan
15. Ronald Thompson said:
Good grief, Larry Bergan!
What nonsense it is to equate Utah's election system to Washington, DC scandals.
As if they are at all similar!
Methinks YOU protest about nothing of import to anyone.
So, the Lt. Governor is mandated under the Help America Vote Act to install a new voting solution...he does, with what I HOPE are the best interests of Utahns...and you attack HIM for this "change in elections?" Try blaming your federal representatives who put the Lt. Gov. in this ridiculous position, underfunded the program - and then warned him that if he did not comply, the Justice Department would hold him accountable.
Try blaming congress and not the poor sap who inherited their flawed public policy, Larry Bergan.
Get a clue.
- Ronald
16. Larry Bergan said:
Mr. Thompson:
We need to have pubicly, televised hearings! This is much more important then the downtown plaza issue. If we did you would have overwhelming support for getting rid of the HAVA mandate (scandal), and Gary wouldn't be alone in his battle against the justice department which is overstepping their authority.
We could hold Diebold accountable and get our money back. They broke the law!
Utah has taken stands against other unfunded programs. Why not this one!
I say "Hand Mark and Hand Count" our precious votes.
17. John Gooden said:
Wow.
All I see from people like Larry are "sky is falling" nonsense and hyperbole.
If our Lt.Gov. is corrupt (as is asserted by Larry) then all of democracy has fallen.
I doubt that to be the case, however.
Larry addresses the Lt.Gov as "Gary," which shows that he is either VERY familiar with Lt.Gov. Herbert or is trying to be disrespectful.
I'm a non-partisan, but I feel that after having listened to people like kathy dopps, I should finally "say what I feel."
Why is it that the conspiracy freaks hate EVERYTHING relating to elections?
Is it because they never win? Is it because they have no agenda?
My answer is this: No, they never "win," because normal human beings refuse to be affiliated with such nonsense; and YES - they have an "agenda."
Their agenda is to win an election that requires them to work the least (by campaigning to voters why he/she need be elected) yet they instead throw "firebombs of insult" and hope for populist approval of their shenanigans.
Voters are not fooled by that crap. I am not fooled by that crap....therefore, I am NOT a KATHY DOPPS supporter.
Mr. Larry, I ask you to actually answer questions that have been presented to you, rather than proffer your political ideology through mis-information and scare-tactics.
John
18. Larry Bergan said:
Mr. Goodman:
It's alright, you can call me Larry if you want. I'm not into all this class stuff anyway. We're all Americans. I have never asserted that Lt. Governor Herbert was corrupt and was not trying to show disrespect as Mr Thompson did by calling him a "sap".
It DID show disrespect to the voters of Utah, when the request for proposal weighted the necessary percentage in the accuracy of the machines at 10%.
You're arguments are astonishingly similar to Mr. Thompson's. Are you related. You seem to trust the machines. That makes about 20 of you in Utah who would even when they know the machines are secretly programmed and a ballot will never be counted.
You can say I'm not answering your questions a thousand times, but It doesn't make it true. All anyone has to do is read the thread.
You can have the last word unless you want to bring up something of substance instead of "flying saucer conspiracy" stuff.
Let me know if you have enough respect for me and the other voters of my state to do that, please.
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20. Robert said:
Well, I cant agree more.
2. Kathy Dopp said:
FYI, I have posted information, articles, and good blogs on the Diebold security flaws uncovered by Bruce Funk of Emery County Utah on my blog at kathydopp.com